A Great Blog Post By Cliff Mass

The current state of the “Climate Change” discussion is a mess; at least that’s my opinion.

Here are the problems:

  • A scientific issue has somehow become a political issue
  • Advocacy groups routinely claim almost any extreme weather event is caused by global warming (not true)
  • Skeptics claim humans have nothing to do with the warming, or deny there is any warming (not true)
  • American public isn’t too concerned even after a constant drumbeat of negative news related to CC (polls show this)

I have no interest in doing a long posting related to global warming/climate change, but I sure found a GREAT piece by Professor Cliff Mass today.  I highly recommend you read it.


His main argument is this:  It’s going to warm up quite a bit more, so we’d better adapt!  I think it’s a realistic view, not a doomsday view.  We’ve “made our bed” so now lets figure out how to live in a warmer world.

What do YOU think about his posting?


Chief Meteorologist Mark Nelsen

51 Responses to A Great Blog Post By Cliff Mass

  1. Farmer Ted says:

    Can 6 billion houses the size of Bill Gates home even fit on the planet?

  2. Jesse-Stevenson says:

    I’m sure it was REALLY difficult for warm weather fanatics like Mark and Cliff to finally “make peace” with the fact that things are going to just keep getting warmer and warmer for the rest of their lives. 😆

    All that aside, I agree with many of the points Cliff makes here. Although I think the animosity toward environmentalists is a bit overboard. At least they are trying to incite some sort of change. Maybe Cliff is mad at them because he doesn’t WANT the world to stop getting warmer. 😮

  3. Boring Oregon says:

    Yet here you all go legalizing marijuana just contributing to the “problem.”

  4. Brian says:

    If humans are really contributing a significant amount of CO2 into the atmosphere, shouldn’t we see the Mauna Loa CO2 chart reflect this when there is a global recession in the economy like 2008? Why is CO2 always the lone boogie man here? Many other things also have an effect on the “greenhouse” effect. Methane, water vapor, sulfur dioxide…etc…etc.

  5. Josh "the snowman" from Gladstone, OR says:

    This post is actually beneath mark and he knows it. Maybe fox12 was putting pressure on him due to lack of traffic?

    I don’t know but he knows better. I won’t comment because all it does is stir up all the one sided comments below.

    That being said. Let’s talk about the current weather……looks like some good rain coming up with a period of decent snow levels for this time on the calendar. Let’s enjoy the fact things couldn’t possibly be worse than last year. I’m thinking we could have some surprises.

  6. W7ENK says:

    223 PM PDT WED OCT 28 2015


  7. WEATHERDAN says:

    In 1959 there were 3 billion humans on planet Earth. In 2015 7.3 billion. At our current rate of expansion will will hit 11 billion by 2050. We need to get down to about 4 billion humans. We are in the midst of the 6th great extinction with the exception of humans and a few other species. But when certain groups spout out the dogma of be fruitful and multiply and multinational corporations rape the Earth in search of the almighty dollar what would you expect. Nothing of consequence will happen until a big crisis occurs and then we will be told that we all have to sacrifice for the common good. Recently a news article came out in the newspaper that within a few years parts of the middle East will be uninhabitable because of the heat. This past Summer in Iraq some heat indexes reached 165 degrees. Right on the gulf with all of it’s high humidities and all. If you think the migration out of the middle East and Africa is bad now just wait. A few more years from now we will look on this as the good old days. If this sounds alarmist to you that’s because it is. People were warned of the danger from the Nazis and the Japanese Empire in the 1930,s and most dismissed the danger. Within a few years 50 million people were dead. The same thing is happening with our climate and most people find talking about it boring. In the meantime have a nice day. Peace.

    • GTS1K' says:

      I hereby invoke Godwin’s Law…


    • Paul D says:

      Visualize whirled peas

    • Boring Oregon says:

      WEATHERDAN! “We need to get back down to 4 billion people.” Are you nuts? The only possible way that could come to fruition is if a huge world war happens or if there’s a huge deadly disease. Maybe you want those things to happen… That would be devastating.

    • WEATHERDAN says:

      There is a good chance that we will have a BIG WAR in this century due to climate change. And yes it will be devastating. That is why we need to act NOW. But of course we won’t. And why? We ignored Communism, Nazism, and Terrorism as long it didn’t affect us personally. There was terrorism in Palestine back in the 1930,s and America did nothing. When parts of our world become uninhabitable the people that used to live there have to move someplace else. So in 2080 when it becomes too warm for agriculture in a great deal of Mexico the people who live there will most likely move North. Kinda like what is going on in Europe at present. Poverty and desperation breed war. Yet people like you want to bury head in the sand and go what climate change. Of course it will be devastating. That is why we need to act. Peace.

      • billowen123 says:

        Thanks WeatherDan, I agree, there is a tendency to ignore problems until they get so bad you can’t ignore them anymore. The examples you brought up are absolutely true.

        Saving the earth charts a radically different course than the one we are on now. Saving the earth means less war and more cooperation, less migration, less economic strife. We can still explore Mars and space, but we need to do it in a balanced way, a sane way. People will get with the program if they understand the vision.

        Thanks for your comment. Peace.

  8. Eugene Dave says:

    The NWS is indicating we may see a brief AR, just in time for the trick or treaters. That’s unfortunate.

  9. runrain says:

    Always some level of excitement when the NWS discussion is delayed – over an hour now. Probably unfounded excitement, but fun anticipation anyway. (I know. Get a life!)

  10. buffedman says:

    Scientists have said that the observed warming is more likely to be attributable to natural causes than to human activities.Many natural factors affect global warming, including changes in the Sun’s output or the Earth’s orbit, large volcanic eruptions and internal variability such as El Niño.I remain a climate skeptic that global warming is human caused.

    • billowen123 says:

      WITH ALL DUE RESPECT BUFFED MAN, That position is very convenient for you because you can keep doing what you are doing: absolutely nothing. The difficult part is really caring about global warming and doing something about it.

      I return to an argument I made earlier on this Blog: Even if global warming isn’t happening, wouldn’t it be prudent to take precautionary steps? Wouldn’t it be prudent to be nicer to our environment and stop dumping carbon into the atmosphere?

      I think so. But then, I’m one of those kooks who actually thinks we can change things for the better.

      WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, please have a nice day.


    • JJ78259 says:

      I am only on number 46 of the 51 things you can do to make a difference from the 1977 Time Magazine Ice Age Prediction, full of scientific evidence!

    • GTS1K' says:

      Well, quelle surprise, the oh, so polite, BILL OWEN (!) has ascertained that buffedman’s post is all a facade for his selfish ways and lack of concern over global warming. Never mind that the original post simply states what many think about the likely causes for warming. Never mind there is no indication of buffedman’s beliefs/positions other than what he plainly stated. No, that simply won’t do! If that sort of subversive thinking is allowed, who knows whose funding/livelihood/self-image might be imperiled.

      Straw man argument anyone?

      Note that, after quickly inferring buffedman’s “convenient” positions from no real information about him, BILL OWEN (!) concludes that he’s obviously …”(doing) nothing.” and doesn’t care. Now that this is ‘established fact’ (sound familiar/), he can malign away and regurgitate the standard tropes of a manifestly “caring” warmist who, even if he’s wrong about AGW, is still “righter” (not to say “righteous-er”) than the buffedman’s of this world.

      After all, he only hopes his grandchildren don’t have to move to Mars.

      Hyperbola, anyone?

      False dichotomies, for dessert?


      Classic, just classic…..

  11. To me the issue remains the same…….too many people………

    • billowen123 says:

      THAT’S DEFINITELY PART OF THE ISSUE MIKE, But one has to be careful about how one presents that issue. To me the connection is obvious, if you use less resources you’ll have less people. But if you bring it up, folks cry coercion or worse. Gentle education is probably the best way. Because, no matter how much we do to save the planet, if there’s 10 billion people on it, its going to be harder to keep it cool.

      Thank You For The Comment.


    • JJ78259 says:


    • Paul D says:

      We’re all a bunch of coppertops just like in The Matrix.

    • Boring Oregon says:

      @Mike- How would you propose we get rid of billions of people? To me the only possible answer would be devastating.

  12. Brian Schmit says:

    10/27/2015 Oregon (All) Temperature Summary

    High:67 at DW0069 Ferndale( 840 ft)
    Low: 53 at Port Orford(0 ft) & LINCON Lincoln C(187 ft)

    High:40 at HOWARD Mt Howard(8150 ft)
    Low: 16 at Burns Municipal (4144 ft )

    Largest Diurnal Change: 44 degrees
    CHRISTMAS VALLEY (62/18 ) (4360 ft )

    Heaviest Rainfall:
    0.24″ at USCRN SITE NEAR(39ft)
    0.22″ at North Bend Munic(16ft)

  13. runrain says:

    First tackle greed, then then the basic needs (if we can get there in time). Bill’s comment is the best – we can all do our part. Recycle! Drive sensibly instead of racing everywhere! Turn lights off! Walk to the store every now and then! Conserve water! I do all these things and actually kind of find it a fun challenge.

    • billowen123 says:

      THANKS RUN RAIN, I often ask myself, “Would I rather live on a clean cool planet with less stuff, or on a hot planet with with more stuff?” I’d rather live on a cool planet.

      Personally, I don’t want my Grandchildren to have to move to Mars, only to encounter even more difficult environmental problems than we face here. We’ve got a planet here, why don’t we save it?

      Thanks Run Rain,

      Bill Owen

  14. Farmer Ted says:

    Cliff says: “Perhaps the most concentrated source of non-carbon energy is nuclear power, but unfortunately, due to the Fukashima disaster” That’s why we call it a disaster, over and over including Chernobyl, nuclear energy is a “cheap” tech fix with dire consequences of it’s own. I disagree with Cliff that it’s the environmentalists overreaction that’s causing our heads to be buried in the sand. No, it’s just the “Zoom Zoom way. Plan stupid greed.

  15. Really like your blog in general. On this particular topic, I find that you are a voice of common sense, science, and, especially non-hysteria. Had a conversation with my wife the other day around the idea that we have already pushed climate change farther than we even guess, and that now is the only time we have left to get ready for the changes. Thank you for the article reference.

  16. Jake-(Gresham) says:

    I don’t mean to creep anyone out (pun not intended for the season haha!) but just a thought on the fact that more and more species are going extinct then ever before in history.

    Not critically endangered mind you but just flat out going extinct. It starts to make you wonder how far the grim reaper has to go before he gets to us and the whole ladder (i.e. food chain) collapses. Granted, we’d probably nuke each other if it came to that….


    I don’t think we’re there by a long shot for ourselves personally; but I do know for a fact that this article could be dozens of pages long on that subject alone. To put it bluntly, most don’t realize the ocean is over fished and massive mammals like the Tiger are in danger of going extinct entirely in their own ecosystems because of climate change and other factors that you guessed it; are also caused by us.

    As 25 year old with just a general science degree. I honestly can say I don’t like what I see. From a micromanagement perspective we are trying with fishing licenses and hunting licenses, ect. but globally we are failing miserably. The F picture at the beginning is appropriate I’d say.

    I don’t know about you guys but I wouldn’t want to see a hurricane like Patricia becoming a norm. every year due to such warm oceans and air. The earth would become quite an unpleasant place through just seasonal weather changes where normally dry hot weather would become a seasonal drought, heavy rain into torrential months, snowy days into a blizzard week and hurricanes rearranging cities more inland to brace for future storms.

    I don’t think anyone in their right mind would want this if they realized they were causing it. The simple matter of the fact is that this issue is the first major global issue since the nuclear bomb that demands global political addressment (whether we like it or not).

    I mean I think it’s safe to say we’ve established that a nuclear world war would render the destruction of all humanity (and most forms of life) so we’ve locked that lion in the cage so to speak (for now) but when it comes to climate change which clearly has great potential of exasperating itself, exponentially? Nothing. At least of substantial change that will actually make a difference.

    I suppose little things can’t kill us (sarcasm).

  17. leer` Geddy says:

    Love that El nino pic as if will never see another La nina again, he’ll why not whole planet in red after all were doomed, lol

  18. leer` Geddy says:

    So a repeat of winter 1950 will never happen again and Mexico climate will be the future for us, ok good night.

  19. Dave in Battle Ground says:

    Regardless of which side of the climate change argument you come down on, I would much rather be faced with adjusting to a warmer climate than a cooler one (think 40 years ago when a new ‘ice age’ was soon to be upon us). At least we won’t freeze to death!

    Reminds me of an old Twilight Episode titled The Midnight Sun.

    • runrain says:

      Ha ha! Great episode. Somebody should have posted that as a video this past summer.

    • Farmer Ted says:

      “leer & Dave”
      It will not be just warmer dude. No, there will be more big storms and hurricane’s like Patricia, many people, flora and fauna will be adversely affected, pretty funny huh? I don’t think so.

    • False equivalence. Yes, a few climate scientists were talking about a new ice age (caused by human activity) in the 1970s, but only a relative few. There was not the consensus in favor of global cooling then that there is now in favor of global warming.

      And as many climate scientists were pointing to increasing carbon dioxide levels (evident even back then) and that the problem would instead be warming as were talking about cooling. Really, back then, nobody knew which trend (if any) would dominate. It was an actual controversy — not a consensus.

    • GTS1K' says:

      Hey, raspberry, a citation or two would support your contention – it was Time magazine, after all. Otherwise, of course your ‘facts’ are unassailably correct….

  20. billowen123 says:

    HELLO MARK, As usual, I appreciate your open-mindedness and willingness to discuss this issue. My own feeling is that it is not too late. If we take practical and specific steps we can reduce climate change and even reverse it. How? By doing the small steps first, turning off lights, driving less, planting a tree. Then, we do the big steps, no oil drilling in Arctic, more fuel efficient cars, and less carbon into the atmosphere. It CAN work. But people just need to believe it.

    Your blog is a step forward because it is open and it is accurate. For that I thank you. Your readers exhibit a similar trait. Together we can do it. Thanks, Bill Owen

    • runrain says:

      Yes, we can! But, alas, no, we won’t. There’s this thing out there that is WAAAAAAYYYYY more important. Trying to to think, what is it again. Oh. Yeah. That’s it. It’s called MONEY!

    • billowen123 says:

      HELLO RUN RAIN, You make a very important point. And that is that the enterprise we are engaged in is how the globe can make money sustainably and cleanly. The good news is, we have already taken steps in that direction since awareness about global warming increased during the 1980’s. Believe it or not, oil companies began planning on producing clean energy a long time ago because they can see that oil will one day run its course. Farmers have long advocated for more sustainable practices. We now have a major car company that produces nothing but electric cars.

      So the news is good, we just need to step up the pace. The other obstacle we need to fight against is the individual’s feeling that their actions will make no difference. Nothing could be further from the truth. Every time we turn off a light, every time we save on gas, we take a concrete step to cooling the planet off. I’m amazed at the difference I’ve made with my family and friends since I’ve started talking about this issue.

      So you are right, we need to make money. But we’ll make it 100% sustainable and leave our kids with a better planet.

      Thank You For Your Comment.

      Bill Owen

    • Farmer Ted says:

      You both talk money, how jaded, how about talking basic needs and existence for 6 billion plus folks on the planet, get real greed is driving us to extinction.

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